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Diamonds - Placement/orientation (Pic)
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Author:  RussellR [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Hesh

I'd use 2 square diamonds around 1.5mm thickness one behind the bridge plate and one between the two tonebars, you could add a third between the tail block and the back tone bar. To be honest I have never seen the point of them myself, If the plate joint is well executed it should be as strong as the wood its self. Guess other opinions will differ.
Author:  Colin S [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:49 am ]
Post subject: 
A second vote for why bother. Your an experienced builder who knows how to join plates. The strength of your bracing shouldn't make any difference, that joint is only likely to fail if it gets way, way too dry, and then diamonds won't be of much help. But if you rally want to I won't disagree with Russell use the three as he says.

Have you thought about a cross-brace behind the bridge patch?

Colin

Author:  Lacey [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:57 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Hesh1956] This is kind of like "Pin the diamonds on my top."

I am looking to for the first time ever use diamonds on the top below. This will be the lightest braced, thinnest top that I have made before so using diamonds will make me feel better.......

Since I have not used them before I have some questions for my pals on the OLF.

1) Obviously grain orientation is perpendicular to the top just like a back strip - right?

2) How big would you make them, how thick should they be, and should they be square?

3) How many should I use and where would you put them?

[/QUOTE]

1. Orientation doesn't matter, but placement is on my third finger.

2. At least a carat and marquise instead of square.

3 One would do, but the more the better! :)You've already put one rock on my left hand, but now my right is jealous.

Author:  Alain Desforges [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi there Hesh. I'm in now way an expert but I've always used diamonds. Better safe than sorry. Like stated previously, if the joint is perfect, it should never come appart, but you never know...

Very light is the idea. Here's how I would go about it...




You might not need the one between the bridge plate and lfb, but I did use one on mine...

Hope this helps
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Hesh, since you've started using hide glue and saw how great this glue is, i would suggest not no bother either but yes it will reinforce your plates and make ya feel better for added strength!
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:58 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Lacey] [QUOTE=Hesh1956] This is kind of like "Pin the diamonds on my top."

I am looking to for the first time ever use diamonds on the top below. This will be the lightest braced, thinnest top that I have made before so using diamonds will make me feel better.......

Since I have not used them before I have some questions for my pals on the OLF.

1) Obviously grain orientation is perpendicular to the top just like a back strip - right?

2) How big would you make them, how thick should they be, and should they be square?

3) How many should I use and where would you put them?

[/QUOTE]

1. Orientation doesn't matter, but placement is on my third finger.

2. At least a carat and marquise instead of square.

3 One would do, but the more the better! :)You've already put one rock on my left hand, but now my right is jealous.

[/QUOTE]

   Lacey, that is MINT!!!

Ah, poor Hesh, walked right into that one, I'm afraid... LMAO...
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Good one Lacey, we'll capture Hesh at Bob's and we'll have a Men's talk with him so he knows where to insert diamonds next time around!
Author:  CarltonM [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:13 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Hesh1956] This will be the lightest braced, thinnest top that I have made ...[/QUOTE]
Man, you're right...it looks paper thin!

Hey, Lacey!
Author:  drfuzz [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Hesh, I do believe Lacey has given you the best possible advice on diamond size, placement and usage
Author:  Cocephus [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:45 am ]
Post subject: 
You`re in it now, Hesh!
Author:  RussellR [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:48 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Lacey] [QUOTE=Hesh1956] This is kind of like "Pin the diamonds on my top."

I am looking to for the first time ever use diamonds on the top below. This will be the lightest braced, thinnest top that I have made before so using diamonds will make me feel better.......

Since I have not used them before I have some questions for my pals on the OLF.

1) Obviously grain orientation is perpendicular to the top just like a back strip - right?

2) How big would you make them, how thick should they be, and should they be square?

3) How many should I use and where would you put them?

[/QUOTE]

1. Orientation doesn't matter, but placement is on my third finger.

2. At least a carat and marquise instead of square.

3 One would do, but the more the better! :)You've already put one rock on my left hand, but now my right is jealous.

[/QUOTE]

Hesh

I return to my earlier point, if the Bond is Strong you don't need the diamonds. RussellR38921.5348263889
Author:  Billy T [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:34 am ]
Post subject: 
    I'm very surprised at the lack of understanding of the real purpose of those diamonds, they are in fact necessary and everybody should be using them!

    Hesh you need the diamonds because they look COOL! You need to put them where they look coolest! It's quite easy!

[quote=Lacey]1. Orientation doesn't matter, but placement is on my third finger.[/quote]

To Quote RusselR [quote]I return to my earlier point, if the Bond is Strong you don't need the diamonds. [/quote]   
RDFC!!! Billy T38921.6675
Author:  Bill Greene [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Hesh:

You won't have to worry about sleeping on the couch anymore...'cause you'll probably have to sell it!

Lacey, while you're at it, you should also consider a large tennis bracelet.

Bill
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Hesh, by the way, nice looking lap-joint! HHG?

You could also orient the grain so that it runs completely perpendicular to the top grain. I notice in my pic, I ran it at about 45 degrees.

I don't think it really matters much, and now that I think of it, 3/32 is maybe too thick as well... I think mine were thinner.

Hope this helps.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
I do what Alain does. A little longer than they are wide. 45? grain, but it can be 90? to the top. 3/32 is fine; I use top cutoffs and sand down a little. Make sure you taper the thickness by bevelling each edge. This is very important to avoid stress risers. Same reason you orient the points along the grain; any reinforcement with an edge parallel to the grain is inviting a crack.

The point is not that you expect your glue joint to fail. It's that stress from contraction of the top due to drying is greatest in the center (I know this by consulting my intuitions and seeing where tops fail due to low humidity. Someone once said on one of the forums that his intuitions are the opposite--that stress is greatest at the rims. We are not both right.) The glue joint doesn't fail; the wood fails alongside the joint. My conjecture is that the very strength of the joint locates a small stress riser right alongside it.
Author:  Don A [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Does it really make that much difference? You already have two tone bars glued to the top (about 45° grain), bridge plate and the end block. Would the addition of 2-3 diamonds really make that much difference if all the glue joints are solid? I've always assumed, and am probably wrong as usual, that the diamonds were more associated with giving crack repairs some additional stability. I'd sure like to hear what some of the other long time builders have to say on this issue. Don A38922.4128472222
Author:  Billy T [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
See! They look Cool!!!

Billy Dean Thomas
Author:  Jeanne [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:46 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Billy T] See! They look Cool!!!

Billy Dean Thomas[/QUOTE]

I agree...they will look really nice!

Hesh, Newbie question

Is your blueprint of your own design and if so, what program are you using?

Jeanne
OberlinJeanne38922.4125578704
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Jeanne, it looks like a plan from either LMI or Stew Mac ,one of Mcrostie's plans of a dread me thinks!
Author:  Jeanne [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Serge, Merci beaucoup!

Jeanne
Oberlin
Author:  Jeanne [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Hesh!

I'm checking that out. There has also been a great (great as in very helpful to me...) thread on tracing from prints onto acrylic.

You guys are great and inspiring! Yes, even to this little lady you are heros - even when you end up sofa bound! When I started with this dream about 8 months ago, I never thought I'd get it off the ground.

Now, I have 2 rooms alloted for my new adventure -15 x 15 and 15 x 20. This weekend I stopped to look at a used band saw a guy was selling. He was pretty surprised that I knew exactly what I wanted and wasn't settling for anything less nor paying any more than I thought it was worth! Thanks for the wonderful discussion on band saws.

So thank you, thank you, thank you! I hope I can make you all proud of me! My goal is to create a beautiful guitar for each of my 3 nephews.....I figure that should take me 6 or 7 tries. I'm not in this for money or to sell, it is just the personal satisfaction of expanding my artistic talents and accomplishing a dream.

Sorry I got all wordy on your thread Hesh

Jeanne
Oberlin Jeanne38922.6687847222
Author:  burbank [ Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Jeannne,

Welcome! Good to have you here.

Whatever you end up building, please be advised that one of the things we all seem to like is pictures of a project's progress, as well as the final result.
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